Buying a Mobile Home Park- 101

[Jim Johnson]

It seems time to talk about how to acquire a park now that we have talked about how to finance the homes inside the park. If you put these two things together you can create a huge income stream that can set you up for life. Buying a park is a bit different than buying a 'stick built rental'. I would include apartments in the 'stick built' definition. First we have to talk about the parks. Some parks are only land lease parks. That means the park owns no homes in the park (no rentals). This is very important if you are going to understand how to figure out what the park might be worth. Remember when you buy a stick built home you can figure in depreciation as part of your total benefit. In a park that is just a land lease park, there is nothing to depreciate (except clubhouses, sprinklers, landscaping etc). This means that a stick building that gives a total benefit or 15 or 18% must be compared to a park that spins that off without the benefit of depreciation. People that do not understand this get smoked on the buy side of the park... so be very clear on total benefit. Parks that are loaded with rentals owned by the park are nothing more than flat apartments. You can depreciate the homes... but you have lots of maintenance also. I choose not to buy parks that have lots of rentals in them. Because I want to sell the homes in the park, if the return is figured on them renting... selling is very tricky without going backwards in return. So here are the big things I look for...

How big is the park?
How full is the park?
What is charged for lot rent?
How does that compare to other parks in the area?
Is there on-site management?
What is the town like?
What business supports the town (demographics)?
Why is the park for sale?
How far is it from me (drive & fly)?

once these are answered I can determine price per space and begin to figure a return.

OK... questions on this... more to follow... lets see where any questions might lead us...

[Debbie]

YEA!!!!!! Jim's back teaching us!!! :praise: :praise: :praise:

Jeff noticed you teaching again and I had to log back in!

Gonna write questions down tonight/tomorrow morning and post 'em up for you to teach me. Er, teach us!

[Jim Johnson]

How big is the park?
How full is the park?
What is charged for lot rent?


How big is the park?

This is important because of many reasons, the largest for me is I want the park to support management at some point. So if the park is small, I need to own several parks in the same area. So how big must it be... this is complicated by many other factors. The largest of which is space rent. I am looking at a few parks about a 4 hour drive from Denver, each is just under 75 spaces. Space rent there is about $100 per month. I will need both parks in place to support a full time manager and the support staff necessary to correctly run the park. If you plan on running and maintaining the park yourself you can use different numbers. I am looking for passive investments, so they must support management. So... one large park or several smaller properties for me.



How full is the park?

How full the park is will dictate what kind of investment it is for you. I really like parks that are empty or have several vacant homes. These are opportunities for me to sell homes on these spaces, carry the notes and be the bank I really am. My return on selling homes is much better than owning the park... but having both is a great combination and adds security to my note holdings. A full park still has opportunity as the homes turn over. Many people will walk away from the homes, giving them to the park in Lu of back rent. So empty is good for me. I then begin to look at other parks in the area to pick up homes. As they come up for sale, I buy them and then pull them out. After a quick fix up they are ready to sell. This fills a space and pays me a return on the note.



What is charged for lot rent & how does that compare?

Remember a function of the parks return is where the space rent comes in. In this you also need to know about expenses, the largest of which will be water if it is not billed back. You should do a market survey for parks in the area and check it against your park. If every park charges more and is full... you might not be very far from hitting a home run. If you are overcharging for rent and the other parks are full, you best look at reducing rents and putting a sharp pencil to your numbers. You need to look at rents, open spaces and homes for sale. Not far from me there is a park with about 400 spaces. It is about 50% full and the park also owns about 60 homes for sale. Add that up and it is a big DOG with flees. Across the street there is a park with 600 spaces, 90% full and about 40 homes for sale, non of which are park owned. Put that to paper, talk to the people running the parks and in short order you find a less that competent staff running the empty park. The tow parks I was talking about earlier are right on for market space rents, but they are both about 1/2 full. It turns out they are owner/managed for the last 20 years. The owners have retired and moved several hours away. They are loosing people because the are not actively managed.

ok... questions on this?

[AIR]

where do you find parks for sale? how do you develop one?

[mike_mn]

What kind of financing can be expected with a park?

I imagine that some kind of seller financing is preferred and likely since I would guess that most parks are owner managed. And having the cash flow might fit in with the reason for wanting to sell...Correct?

What about conventional financing, what can you expect there? LTVs, amort terms, etc...

[Debbie]

Parks that are loaded with rentals owned by the park are nothing more than flat apartments. You can depreciate the homes...
Are you referring to mobile homes (rental) can be depreciated? I thought they have no value plus they are considered as personal property (DMV title). Am I wrong?

Because I want to sell the homes in the park, if the return is figured on them renting... selling is very tricky without going backwards in return. What if you have intention on keeping the park and mobile homes for awhile---anywhere from 3 to 10 years, if not more? Wouldn't it still be beneficial to keep the mobile homes as rental? Even if it's just a matter of short term plan until converting mobile homes into owner occupied (via seller finance or lease option)/

So here are the big things I look for...

How big is the park?
How full is the park?
What is charged for lot rent?
How does that compare to other parks in the area?
Is there on-site management?
What is the town like?
What business supports the town (demographics)?
Why is the park for sale?
How far is it from me (drive & fly)?

once these are answered I can determine price per space and begin to figure a return.

OK... questions on this... more to follow... lets see where any questions might lead us...

You mentioned distance between the mobile home and your personal home. That is understandable. My question is---what if you find a park (owner occupied or rental mobile homes) that is cheap enough to buy outright but it's about couple hours drive. Wouldn't that be worth looking into?

My one other question that is not (yet) mentioned is the "Dealer's License". Does buying/owning a mobile home park requires "Dealer's License"?

[Debbie]

How big is the park?

This is important because of many reasons, the largest for me is I want the park to support management at some point. So if the park is small, I need to own several parks in the same area. So how big must it be... this is complicated by many other factors. The largest of which is space rent. I am looking at a few parks about a 4 hour drive from Denver, each is just under 75 spaces. Space rent there is about $100 per month. I will need both parks in place to support a full time manager and the support staff necessary to correctly run the park. If you plan on running and maintaining the park yourself you can use different numbers. I am looking for passive investments, so they must support management. So... one large park or several smaller properties for me.

How are the management being paid? In exchange for free MH and free lot rent? Paid by salary along with health benefits and FICA? Single or multiple employees (ie landscapers/property manager/accountant, etc)?

How full is the park?

How full the park is will dictate what kind of investment it is for you. I really like parks that are empty or have several vacant homes. These are opportunities for me to sell homes on these spaces, carry the notes and be the bank I really am. My return on selling homes is much better than owning the park... but having both is a great combination and adds security to my note holdings. A full park still has opportunity as the homes turn over. Many people will walk away from the homes, giving them to the park in Lu of back rent. So empty is good for me. I then begin to look at other parks in the area to pick up homes. As they come up for sale, I buy them and then pull them out. After a quick fix up they are ready to sell. This fills a space and pays me a return on the note.
Is there preference of age on Mobile Homes in the park? Add a lot lease clause stating that any departing mh owners must allow you (park owner) to buy back the mobile homes? Of course, departing mh homes giving you (park owner) in lieu of lot back rent is much cheaper!
Do you (park owner) prefers to hold MH notes on longer term compared to holding notes on MH without owning or buying a park?


What is charged for lot rent & how does that compare?

Remember a function of the parks return is where the space rent comes in. In this you also need to know about expenses, the largest of which will be water if it is not billed back. You should do a market survey for parks in the area and check it against your park. If every park charges more and is full... you might not be very far from hitting a home run. If you are overcharging for rent and the other parks are full, you best look at reducing rents and putting a sharp pencil to your numbers. You need to look at rents, open spaces and homes for sale. Not far from me there is a park with about 400 spaces. It is about 50% full and the park also owns about 60 homes for sale. Add that up and it is a big DOG with flees. Across the street there is a park with 600 spaces, 90% full and about 40 homes for sale, non of which are park owned. Put that to paper, talk to the people running the parks and in short order you find a less that competent staff running the empty park. The tow parks I was talking about earlier are right on for market space rents, but they are both about 1/2 full. It turns out they are owner/managed for the last 20 years. The owners have retired and moved several hours away. They are loosing people because the are not actively managed.

ok... questions on this?

I have found that the mobile home parks owners, in spite of supposedly made excellent money during ownership, still overprice their park for sale. So far, they have no interest in lower their price even if they have their park up for sale for the last 2 to 7 years. It's unknown to me why they bother to put it up for sale......

[Jim Johnson]

where do you find parks for sale? how do you develop one?
I find parks in many ways. Public access to www.loopnet.com, the local commercial MLS databases, and I also use sites like www.mobilehomeparkstore.com

That is the public places I go... I also contact park owners by purchasing a list of all the parks in a state and calling each owner and asking if their park is for sale. As for development of a park... I do not get into the development side as I thing there is more yield in buying something that has been developed and is poorly run. My upside is in filling the park and carrying the notes.

[Jim Johnson]

How are the management being paid? In exchange for free MH and free lot rent? Paid by salary along with health benefits and FICA? Single or multiple employees (ie landscapers/property manager/accountant, etc)?

The managers get paid in many ways. I will supply a home for them to live in, a car to drive and pay some of the expenses. I will also pay a wage in addition to a commission on every home sold.


Is there preference of age on Mobile Homes in the park? older homes tend to yield better on notes

Add a lot lease clause stating that any departing mh owners must allow you (park owner) to buy back the mobile homes? enough people leave the homes without needing a clause


Of course, departing mh homes giving you (park owner) in lieu of lot back rent is much cheaper! yes it is.

Do you (park owner) prefers to hold MH notes on longer term compared to holding notes on MH without owning or buying a park? If I own the park, or at least control it through a lease option, I can control my destiny much better than a out of control manager or regional. Most parks are mismanaged by arrogant managers or corporate philosophy... I want to own homes in a park that really understands the win-win between the homes, the tenants and the investors.


I have found that the mobile home parks owners, in spite of supposedly made excellent money during ownership, still overprice their park for sale. So far, they have no interest in lower their price even if they have their park up for sale for the last 2 to 7 years. It's unknown to me why they bother to put it up for sale......
Well, most owners only look at cash flow when pricing the park. Most agents will tell you to list at a cap rate that is too low for a land lease play, and smart investors see right through the low yield. A 10% return on a park is probably 7% less than the same 10% cash on cash return on a stick built structure.

[Jim Johnson]

What kind of financing can be expected with a park?

I imagine that some kind of seller financing is preferred and likely since I would guess that most parks are owner managed. And having the cash flow might fit in with the reason for wanting to sell...Correct?

What about conventional financing, what can you expect there? LTVs, amort terms, etc...
I always look for seller financing or a lease/option (nnn lease). The conventional financing is tricky because of MHP sizes. If you are over 1 million there are lots of options, really as many as you can negotiate. under 1 million is tough to finance and the call is normally 10 year on a 35 am.

[Jim Johnson]

Originally Posted by Jim Johnson
Parks that are loaded with rentals owned by the park are nothing more than flat apartments. You can depreciate the homes...
Are you referring to mobile homes (rental) can be depreciated? I thought they have no value plus they are considered as personal property (DMV title). Am I wrong? personal property deprecates over 5 years. But you must buy it by contract as personal property or the IRS might not allow the deduction. A red flag is lenders do not like lending on personal property...

Because I want to sell the homes in the park, if the return is figured on them renting... selling is very tricky without going backwards in return.

What if you have intention on keeping the park and mobile homes for awhile---anywhere from 3 to 10 years, if not more? Wouldn't it still be beneficial to keep the mobile homes as rental? Even if it's just a matter of short term plan until converting mobile homes into owner occupied (via seller finance or lease option)/ because income property is priced based on return, you will overpay for the return you receive for the rentals. It automatically is figured as permanent return, when you sell them the return becomes finite. It is tricky.


You mentioned distance between the mobile home and your personal home. That is understandable. My question is---what if you find a park (owner occupied or rental mobile homes) that is cheap enough to buy outright but it's about couple hours drive. Wouldn't that be worth looking into?
I do not really care about price, I am looking for the total return and I do not want to manage the park. So for me, regardless of park size, I must own enough park spaces in a area to support a manager.



My one other question that is not (yet) mentioned is the "Dealer's License". Does buying/owning a mobile home park requires "Dealer's License"?
Every state is different on Dealer Licences, I would have one in every state I do business in.

[Jim Johnson]

Is there on-site management?
What is the town like?
What business supports the town (demographics)?
Why is the park for sale?
How far is it from me (drive & fly)?


On site Management?

The management question for me becomes important because I really do not want to be involved on the day to day running of a park. If the park is to small to support a manager I would look to couple it with other parks in the area and share the management. Having someone there every day to solve issues with renters and run the sales side of the park is critical to your return. Every investment should have a managers pay built in no matter how small the investment. Bottom line is someone is being paid to run the investment. If you are running it, the investment should be paying you.



What is the town like and what are its demographics?

To understand how your investment will do you really need to understand the area. Pull up the city demographics and look at what is happening with population, average age, home sales prices, housing starts and local employment. You are looking for trends in the local economy. Be careful when looking at this data as some towns look large, but might be primarily supported by a single employer. There are ghost town in Texas after the oil boom moved out, so look for diverse economies. Another good source is the local chamber.



Why is the park for sale?

Simple question that is good to know. You might ask some of the residents what they like about the park, and what they do not like.



How far is it away?

You need to know your comfort zone when it comes to heading to see your investments. If you plan on flying, make sure that is budgeted into what your parks expenses are. If you are driving and need to spend a night, make sure that expense is in the budget. On the front end you might visit the park every other week, down the road you will probably visit every quarter or so.

questions on any of this...?

Next lets take a park, break down its numbers and see what might make sense for a offer... until then...

[Debbie]

On site Management?

The management question for me becomes important because I really do not want to be involved on the day to day running of a park. If the park is to small to support a manager I would look to couple it with other parks in the area and share the management. Having someone there every day to solve issues with renters and run the sales side of the park is critical to your return. Every investment should have a managers pay built in no matter how small the investment. Bottom line is someone is being paid to run the investment. If you are running it, the investment should be paying you.

I have no problem with paying park manager. However, it's the potential error of paying an employee makes me nervous. What if I forget to pay his/her insurance? Forgot to deduct FICA from manager's paycheck....Unless there's another way without being directly responsible for the employee's FICA and insurances?

What is the town like and what are its demographics?

To understand how your investment will do you really need to understand the area. Pull up the city demographics and look at what is happening with population, average age, home sales prices, housing starts and local employment. You are looking for trends in the local economy. Be careful when looking at this data as some towns look large, but might be primarily supported by a single employer. There are ghost town in Texas after the oil boom moved out, so look for diverse economies. Another good source is the local chamber.

What if it's a town or nearby towns that consists of multiple small businesses with no one true major business?

Why is the park for sale?

Simple question that is good to know. You might ask some of the residents what they like about the park, and what they do not like.

Jeff and my experiences are that neighbors strictly do not like small mobile home parks that are located in their neighborhoods. However, bigger parks (and couple of small parks) are pretty well hidden (via large mature trees and hidden driveways), hence no real complaints from neighborhoods

How far is it away?

You need to know your comfort zone when it comes to heading to see your investments. If you plan on flying, make sure that is budgeted into what your parks expenses are. If you are driving and need to spend a night, make sure that expense is in the budget. On the front end you might visit the park every other week, down the road you will probably visit every quarter or so.

Good common sense!

questions on any of this...?

Next lets take a park, break down its numbers and see what might make sense for a offer... until then...

Anxiously waiting but don't make me wait more than 24 hours please! :D

[Jim Johnson]

I have no problem with paying park manager. However, it's the potential error of paying an employee makes me nervous. What if I forget to pay his/her insurance? Forgot to deduct FICA from manager's paycheck....Unless there's another way without being directly responsible for the employee's FICA and insurances?

Your accountant can handle all of those details, or you can use a payroll service that does it for a small fee. For me it is a accountant duty.



What if it's a town or nearby towns that consists of multiple small businesses with no one true major business? Every town is different. I like towns that have some larger business, like the county seat, wall mart, trucking companies etc. That said lots of small businesses is great. But if the whole town is mining, oil and gas development or something that could be trendy... be very careful.



Jeff and my experiences are that neighbors strictly do not like small mobile home parks that are located in their neighborhoods. However, bigger parks (and couple of small parks) are pretty well hidden (via large mature trees and hidden driveways), hence no real complaints from neighborhoods
I really do not care about the neighboring residences. I am talking to the people that live in the park. I will probably talk to a local cop also.



Anxiously waiting but don't make me wait more than 24 hours please! :D
Geesh... Debbie is turning up the heat... She knows what she wants and even has a drop dead time for getting it. I will do my best... though I might get busy ya know... until then...

[Debbie]

Geesh... Debbie is turning up the heat... She knows what she wants and even has a drop dead time for getting it. I will do my best... though I might get busy ya know... until then...

:SM083: Get to work Jim! (tapping my shoe)Time's tick tocking....

BTW - Thanx for mentioning accountant. I was too focused on worrying about about making a big boo-boo on employee's accounting---I plumb forgot that an accountant exists in our RE world...Now I feel better!

[Jim Johnson]

Lets create a park, or better yet I will use one that is in my file as a example. Then we can break the park down by the numbers and see what it is worth. In the end... I will disclose what the owner thinks it is worth...

The Park-
200 spaces
95 are occupied
lot rent is $145.00 per month
expenses= 61,000 / year (water is owner paid @ $32,000 / year)
debt service is not figured into expenses- current debt service is $18,000 / year
1st year deferred maintenance- rebuild roads @ aprox. $75,000
The local economy is about 6,500 people
The park is in the county seat
The towns largest employer is a local strip mine which employs about 2,000
second largest employer is county at 300 people
2 bedroom 2 bath apartment rents for about $450.00

questions / comments ?

[mike_mn]

Lets create a park, or better yet I will use one that is in my file as a example. Then we can break the park down by the numbers and see what it is worth. In the end... I will disclose what the owner thinks it is worth...

The Park-
200 spaces
95 are occupied
lot rent is $145.00 per month
expenses= 61,000 / year (water is owner paid @ $32,000 / year)
debt service is not figured into expenses- current debt service is $18,000 / year
1st year deferred maintenance- rebuild roads @ aprox. $75,000
The local economy is about 6,500 people
The park is in the county seat
The towns largest employer is a local strip mine which employs about 2,000
second largest employer is county at 300 people
2 bedroom 2 bath apartment rents for about $450.00

questions / comments ?

From my perspective I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole...unless it was given to me...Which might be your point...even then it is a tough one

This park represents about 5% of the whole local economy...and the mine when empty leaves you with a useless chunk of land. Although, that may take longer than your lifetime...I can see an upside in the near term as you can truck in more homes and sell them to former renters for the same price as renting, but how much is potential worth to a seller? A lot...and a buyer? not so much.

Your yr one expenses leaves you about 11-12k to pay for any new debt to aquire the property and your profit assuming no decrease or increase in vacancy. That is about 126 bucks in proift per unit in the first year, even if you got it for taking over the loan. Hence my difficulty to swallow...

Teach me to see the potential in this property...I am interested.

[Debbie]

Lets create a park, or better yet I will use one that is in my file as a example. Then we can break the park down by the numbers and see what it is worth. In the end... I will disclose what the owner thinks it is worth...

The Park-
200 spaces
95 are occupied Leaving 105 spaces unoccupied/unpaid rent
lot rent is $145.00 per month $13,775 paid lot rent per month; $15,225 loss rent per month
expenses= 61,000 / year (water is owner paid @ $32,000 / year) $29K/yr expense towards taxes, insurance, maint., possible salary
debt service is not figured into expenses- current debt service is $18,000 / year What do you mean by debt service?
1st year deferred maintenance- rebuild roads @ aprox. $75,000 For how long? Does this includes the expenses?
The local economy is about 6,500 people Yikes! Little population!
The park is in the county seat Doesn't really mean anything to me or important
The towns largest employer is a local strip mine which employs about 2,000
second largest employer is county at 300 people Strong companies? Hiring more people? Laying off people? Strong potential growth?
2 bedroom 2 bath apartment rents for about $450.00

questions / comments ?


Without other informations such as whether or not each lots has it's own meters (renters pay utilities and water/sewer), it's hard to judge if $145/mo lot rent is justified.

Plus, the above information did not mentioned the distance of nearest towns/cities.

Not to mention on whether if there's additional land/acreage that can be developed or not.

I do wonder about the local strip mine---the very land that the park that sits on be very valuable (or will be)

For the idea of what the owner may think is worth for either best or worse case scenario of location/economy---I've no idea.

[Jim Johnson]

Lets create a park, or better yet I will use one that is in my file as a example. Then we can break the park down by the numbers and see what it is worth. In the end... I will disclose what the owner thinks it is worth...

The Park-
200 spaces
95 are occupied
lot rent is $145.00 per month
expenses= 61,000 / year (water is owner paid @ $32,000 / year)
debt service is not figured into expenses- current debt service is $18,000 / year
1st year deferred maintenance- rebuild roads @ aprox. $75,000
The local economy is about 6,500 people
The park is in the county seat
The towns largest employer is a local strip mine which employs about 2,000
second largest employer is county at 300 people
2 bedroom 2 bath apartment rents for about $450.00

questions / comments ?
more info...
There are 4 other parks in the town. A total of about 250 spaces. the space rents are all about the same, and each of the other parks is more than 95% full... There are no meters on the homes and water is paid by the park owner... debt service= the amount the current owner pays to their loan... The roads are in need of immediate repair per the city for code violations... The town is growing at about 3-5% per year... the average home sales price is $100,000... There were about 30 new homes built last year.. all pre sold... They have about 100 new homes being built this year... to date all have been pre sold... Each lot will require about $1,000 to prep for a home to be put on it (factoring in cleanup and prep work for water and risers)... the park has a laundry facility that has been closed due to a busted water line... it will support 10 washers and dryers... about $5,000 to renovate and repair the laundry...

questions... comments... strategy??

[Debbie]

more info...
There are 4 other parks in the town. A total of about 250 spaces. the space rents are all about the same, and each of the other parks is more than 95% full... There are no meters on the homes and water is paid by the park owner... debt service= the amount the current owner pays to their loan... The roads are in need of immediate repair per the city for code violations... The town is growing at about 3-5% per year... the average home sales price is $100,000... There were about 30 new homes built last year.. all pre sold... They have about 100 new homes being built this year... to date all have been pre sold... Each lot will require about $1,000 to prep for a home to be put on it (factoring in cleanup and prep work for water and risers)... the park has a laundry facility that has been closed due to a busted water line... it will support 10 washers and dryers... about $5,000 to renovate and repair the laundry...

questions... comments... strategy??

I just know that I'm focusing on your park informations too much that I'm probably reading them between the lines.

Soooo....trying to re-read with fresh eyes, sounds like to me that the park in question is badly managed and wants to get out.

Therefore, this park is calling for good owner/management. While the other parks are successful and that the town is showing growth, it appears to be promising for the park. Every parks can use improvements, including road improvements and water line repaired.

I'm going to assume that the town's employers are in good shape....

Granted, there's new housings and all are pre-sold but that doesn't mean that all new homeowners can afford those newly built homes. Some will lose their homes. Hence, they will need a place to live. Chances are good that the landlords will not want those "foreclosed" homeowners hence giving the park owner an opportunity to provide homes (mobile homes).

So, there's a good chance that the park owner will be motivated to sell less than hoped for.....

Am I good or bad at this, Jim?

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Right now, with debt and expenses, this park is breaking even. That's good for a buyer. This is making a lot of assumtions, though.

It's even better with the homes pre-selling at $100k. Like Debbie said, some folks can't afford that note.

6,500 population, 450 mobile home spaces represent less than 10% of the population, that's another good thing.

Apartment dwellers are paying $450-$145 lot rent will leave $300 for mobile home note. That's not so good, but if it's marketed right (have your own yard with green grass, not concrete. No more sharing a wall with your neighbors, move to Jim's Green Acres for only a few dollars more). Now, if you put some repos on those lots that you just got at auction for $5000 and owner finance, you could compete with apartment rents and still make money.


My offer would be (with the park in the current condition) no more than $180,000. After roads and laundry repair you'll be looking at a big fat paycheck of (drum roll please) About $6k. But wait, then you have to put in utilities on the vacant lots at $1000/each. (assuming that all 105 vacant lots need this work and hopefully that's the reason their vacant) then you're looking at a loss of about $100k first year. Really not bad, big tax deduction. Following year, you'll make it up with MH notes, lot rents, Laundry income and with a park that size, I'd put in a convenience store which should make a few bucks, and pull in tenants.

Year three, you'll operating at 95% pocketing about $200k/year or sell off at $2.2M

(all of this was using rough math, rounding up or down, a few guestimates, and some assumptions)

Ok, Master, did I pass the test or should I schedule summer school?

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

But wait, again. I left out the MH notes. 100 (min) @ $3600/year gives you $360,000 in addition to the $200,000. That's not a bad deal for a broke down park making about $6,000/year.

[Debbie]

:SM083: (singing) Jeffery is a cheater! Jeffery is a cheater! (ending song)

To those who don't know---Jeffery owns some MH so he's a cheater (song begins).....:D

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

:SM083: (singing) Jeffery is a cheater! Jeffery is a cheater! (ending song)

To those who don't know---Jeffery owns some MH so he's a cheater (song begins).....:D

:box: I'm a bully, too

[Jim Johnson]

As I pull into a park I look for why it might be empty. This one is very poorly managed. Turns out the guy who owns it has visited it once in the last 10 years. He is very wealthy and lives down south most of the year... then in the winter heads to South America where it is warmer... on his yacht. So... he is not very motivated. The closest large town, 35,000 lies 60 miles away. After that the next closest large town is one of 100,000 but 1.5 hours the other way. OK... back to the park. The lots are usable once the weeds, trash and junk is removed. The spaces have utilities but they have not been tested since the park has been emptying, over the last 10 years or so. Really nothing has been done over the last 10 years. If everything stayed the same... one would have enough income to support a $200,000 loan payment. This park is so run down you could probably only get a loan at 70% LTV. Now we have a non motivated seller... and a property that requires much cash to close... at least on the outset...

So lets examine how we can produce income from this dog...
I always look to save money before I try to make more. Being a good spender goes a long way to padding the bottom line. So... expenses.


Water is the huge one... Over $30,000 a year goes to water. Did anyone do the math on the cost per home monthly? Well, lets just say you can bill back about $2,500 per month. Now what does it cost. the meters that I would use are manual read meters which I can pick up used for about $200-$300 each.

** sidebar** Sometimes a park will remove manual meters and install wireless read meters. If your friendly with a park manager they will give you the old manual meters. I am... and they will... so I have about 500 of these coming to me over the next year.

Now you are supporting a payment on $580,000

OK... other upside- fill the other 100 spaces- $14,000/month or $174,000 per year.

now your paying on a $2,000,000 loan and paying yourself about $5,000 a month.

Add in some laundry, sell Internet service through wireless to each home and your bottom line is padded a bit more. maybe now your at $6,000 or a bit more per month.

Maybe this park has a final value in today's dollars of around 2 million.

Now... getting it from point here to there takes some planning... and probably some money. If we wait for 100 people to move in it could take 10 years... probably more... so we need to 'create our own wind' so to speak.

Comments, ideas, questions....

one more thing here... we also need to factor in the opportunity cost for the fix up and rent up on this park. If the money were invested elsewhere, what would it make right away. So as a investor it is critical to know your 'discount rate'. Mine is silly because we invest heavily in buying and financing mobile homes... but a good average for real estate investors seems to be between 12 and 20. It really depends on how aggressive a investor is. So our return is what this property earns MINUS the opportunity cost of our capital investment INCLUDING your time.

Also... how are you going to lock up this property... They laughed at a offer of $500,000. I do not want to feed the day to day operations of the park... it must support itself. We know the number is more than 500k... what is it worth to you all...
next... well... I had to just delete that part... what are your ideas? And... how are you going to fund it????

[Debbie]

Water is the huge one... Over $30,000 a year goes to water. Did anyone do the math on the cost per home monthly? Well, lets just say you can bill back about $2,500 per month. Now what does it cost. the meters that I would use are manual read meters which I can pick up used for about $200-$300 each.
Curious---what's the general cost of wireless water meter(s)?

** sidebar** Sometimes a park will remove manual meters and install wireless read meters. If your friendly with a park manager they will give you the old manual meters. I am... and they will... so I have about 500 of these coming to me over the next year.
:SM069:

Now you are supporting a payment on $580,000
I'm lost on where $580K comes from at this moment

Maybe this park has a final value in today's dollars of around 2 million.
Am I understanding correctly that $2M is based on this park with little or no work needed to be done?

Also... how are you going to lock up this property... They laughed at a offer of $500,000. I do not want to feed the day to day operations of the park... it must support itself. We know the number is more than 500k... what is it worth to you all...
next... well... I had to just delete that part... what are your ideas? And... how are you going to fund it????

I'm too excited to figure out on how to fund it....I know that if it's going to be "conventional" loan, they'll want 30-40% down.
I know lease option is very possible and doable but that's only if park owners are willing to do it....

[Jim Johnson]

So after looking at this park for quite a while it is time to figure out how to lock it up. The idea is to preserve cash because the deferred maintenance plus a down payment on conventional financing would kill the cash on cash return. The owner of the park likes his cash flow... so can we give him cash... tie up the park... operate at will...

We must figure out what to do with the overall price... so how does one structure this so it is fair to both parties. Really the owner should not get bumps for the money I put in. So what are some ideas on a fair structure for this. Lets say the option will be for 10 years with a 10 year extension built in.

I know how I will do it... lets see what you all can come up with...

Lets say in today's dollars the price is around $750,000.
Once we know how it can be put together we will figure out what the return is year by year... and then look at some exit strategies at the 10 year mark...

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Well, let's see here. Lease with option wouldn't be fair to the purchaser, unless anything paid over and above current positive cash flow is credited to purchase price.

Personally, I would prefer owner finance at 0 down and 10%. Amort 30 years, balloon in 10. At $750,000, note would be $6500 and rental income is over $13,000. New lease to tenants increasing rent $28 to cover water. Water meters on new lots to put the cost of water on new tenants. At $500 per meter, though, you'd be looking at 4 or 5 months (depending on other maint. costs per lot) to recover cost of meters.

You asked about fair and I think the owner finance deal is the fairest, and best way to keep cash for repairs. He gets his cash flow (that he likes) and his asking price (that he wants) and buyer gets the park (that he wants).

[Debbie]

Owner finance (Contract for Deed) certainly sounds good to me. It's logical.

Based on my experiences on speaking with few park owners, they didn't want to do lease option or anything else other than take out a mortgage or "Cash is King" attitude. They were more than willing to let the park be up for sale indefinitely.

However, they did say that if the mortgage rates were in double digits, it would be a different story.

So, I'm at a loss for now.....except wait til I built enough cash which will take me some time....

[Jim Johnson]

Well, let's see here. Lease with option wouldn't be fair to the purchaser, unless anything paid over and above current positive cash flow is credited to purchase price.

Personally, I would prefer owner finance at 0 down and 10%. Amort 30 years, balloon in 10. At $750,000, note would be $6500 and rental income is over $13,000. New lease to tenants increasing rent $28 to cover water. Water meters on new lots to put the cost of water on new tenants. At $500 per meter, though, you'd be looking at 4 or 5 months (depending on other maint. costs per lot) to recover cost of meters.

You asked about fair and I think the owner finance deal is the fairest, and best way to keep cash for repairs. He gets his cash flow (that he likes) and his asking price (that he wants) and buyer gets the park (that he wants).
This property only will cash flow out of the box about $3,800 per month. You will need to feed the park several thousand per month, and dish out the money for the improvements. Remember this park has a $75,000 road project to complete and every space you put a home on needs some improvement. How many homes would you have to put in to make the number positive? How long will it take? What does this APOD look like, and where are you after 10 years?

I am not saying your wrong... any guesses at these answers?

[Jim Johnson]

Owner finance (Contract for Deed) certainly sounds good to me. It's logical.

Based on my experiences on speaking with few park owners, they didn't want to do lease option or anything else other than take out a mortgage or "Cash is King" attitude. They were more than willing to let the park be up for sale indefinitely.

However, they did say that if the mortgage rates were in double digits, it would be a different story.

So, I'm at a loss for now.....except wait til I built enough cash which will take me some time....
The higher the interest rates the LOWER the value of the park. Remember a park is valued on a income approach for funding not replacement cost. As a investor your yield is the same no matter what the interest rates... it is just the price that changes. That said... this park can not be funded through a conventional loan for the asking price. We need a more creative solution...

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

This property only will cash flow out of the box about $3,800 per month. You will need to feed the park several thousand per month, and dish out the money for the improvements. Remember this park has a $75,000 road project to complete and every space you put a home on needs some improvement. How many homes would you have to put in to make the number positive? How long will it take? What does this APOD look like, and where are you after 10 years?

I am not saying your wrong... any guesses at these answers?

Ya know, Jim, I knew that I should have saved that spreadsheet that I was doodling on the other night. That Jim, always making somebody think. Ok, let's start with your numbers. Cash flowing, as is, $3800. In need of $185,000 for capital improvements. I see a few ways of doing this. We'll start with the simplest. Get either a second loan or a signature loan for road, lot and laundry repair. This will bring the cash flow down to $1,100. Repairs are done in a few months and now you can start bringing in MH's. Let's not add MH income, only lot rents. Realistically, we can probably get 1 or 2 new tenants per month. If we're averaging 1.5 tenants per month, that will increase cashflow $256. At 12 months, that's over $16,000 cash flow. Deduct $1k from that for your annual get together (you do have annual meetings, right?).

With our slow growth of 18 new tenants per year cash flow would look like:
Year 2 16200
Year 3 19200
Year 4 22200
Year 5 25200
year 6 28200 (92% occupancy)
year 7 28200
year 8 28200
year 9 28200

Year 10, oops, time to refinance. Second is paid, balance on first is $682,034. We've shown positive cash flow and we can refi for a lower interest loan (assuming, of course, that interest rates don't pull a retro thing and jump up to double digits), but using todays figures, we're looking at an annual note of $50,000. We haven't increased rents in the last 9 years because we wanted to attract new tenants, so, it's time for a rent increase. We'll go up $10 per unit per month. 185 rented units x $10 = $1850/month x 12 = $22,200 annual increase.
Year 11
Rental income $406,000
Debt $50,000
Water $62,000 (this was included in first rent increase)
MM&R $60,000 (management, maint. repairs)
Insurance $4,000 (general Liability)
Taxes $72,000 (guestimate)

Cash flow $158,000.

11 years to get to this is a mighty long time and I think this is best case. Unless we're putting repos on the lots to attract new tenants during the first 10 years, then we can easily double that cash flow.

Alrighty, Professor Jim, how'd I do?

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

This property only will cash flow out of the box about $3,800 per month. You will need to feed the park several thousand per month, and dish out the money for the improvements. Remember this park has a $75,000 road project to complete and every space you put a home on needs some improvement. How many homes would you have to put in to make the number positive? How long will it take? What does this APOD look like, and where are you after 10 years?

I am not saying your wrong... any guesses at these answers?

Ya know, Jim, I knew that I should have saved that spreadsheet that I was doodling on the other night. That Jim, always making somebody think. Ok, let's start with your numbers. Cash flowing, as is, $3800. In need of $185,000 for capital improvements. I see a few ways of doing this. We'll start with the simplest. Get either a second loan or a signature loan for road, lot and laundry repair. This will bring the cash flow down to $1,100. Repairs are done in a few months and now you can start bringing in MH's. Let's not add MH income, only lot rents. Realistically, we can probably get 1 or 2 new tenants per month. If we're averaging 1.5 tenants per month, that will increase cashflow $256. At 12 months, that's over $16,000 cash flow. Deduct $1k from that for your annual get together (you do have annual meetings, right?).

With our slow growth of 18 new tenants per year cash flow would look like:
Year 2 16200
Year 3 19200
Year 4 22200
Year 5 25200
year 6 28200 (92% occupancy)
year 7 28200
year 8 28200
year 9 28200

Year 10, oops, time to refinance. Second is paid, balance on first is $682,034. We've shown positive cash flow and we can refi for a lower interest loan (assuming, of course, that interest rates don't pull a retro thing and jump up to double digits), but using todays figures, we're looking at an annual note of $50,000. We haven't increased rents in the last 9 years because we wanted to attract new tenants, so, it's time for a rent increase. We'll go up $10 per unit per month. 185 rented units x $10 = $1850/month x 12 = $22,200 annual increase.
Year 11
Rental income $406,000
Debt $50,000
Water $62,000 (this was included in first rent increase)
MM&R $60,000 (management, maint. repairs)
Insurance $4,000 (general Liability)
Taxes $72,000 (guestimate)

Cash flow $158,000.

11 years to get to this is a mighty long time and I think this is best case. Unless we're putting repos on the lots to attract new tenants during the first 10 years, then we can easily double that cash flow.

Alrighty, Professor Jim, how'd I do?

[mike_mn]

Let me see if my breakdown is correct.

Yr 1 observations:
As is income is 165,300
Invest 5k in laundry and wireless to get 6k/mo extra income
Invest nil in water meters to existing homes and lose 2500/mo expenses
Invest 75k in road, possibly go to county for a bond or some sort of tax financing to be paid back over 10yrs. Worst case, cough it up.

With these small changes, you end up with 237300 income yr 1 and 104k in expenses yr 1. With no increase in occupancy. That leaves the park with 133300 or 11,000/mo for cash flow and debt service.

I will estimate lease payments of 7000/mo with yearly increases of 5%, this is his actual current cash flow minus half the road improvements of 37500/10yrs.

at 7000/mo you are left with 4000/mo cash flow as is.

If you shoot for population increase of 1 homes/mo, cost is 1000/mo in lot setup and 145/mo return. This is about a 7 month return on the setup investment.

at 12 months, you add 12k costs and 1740/mo income. Thus yr 2 starts out with the picture looking like this:
107 lots at 145/mo = 15515/mo
laundry and internet = 6000/mo
Expenses are 2416/mo
Debt service = 7350/mo

Start off year 2 at 11750/mo cash flow

At time of purchase, you pay 37,500 for the option(5% of current value 750k). You also cough up 75k to pay for the road and 5k to fix laundry and install wireless to sell.

So you invest 117.5k into a property that returns approximately 50%+ in yr one or about 50k.

At yr 5 your occupancy should increasing steadily with an estimated:
150 lots at 150/mo(increase in rent) = 22500/mo
Laundry and internet = 9,000/mo due to increase in occupancy
expenses = 2500/mo
lease payment = 8935/mo(5% increase x 5yrs)
Cash Flow is 20065/mo

Again at yr 10 occupancy should be full and looks like this:
200 lots at 160/mo = 32000/mo
laundry and internet = 12,000/mo
expenses = 3000/mo(misc cost increases)
lease payment = 11,400/mo(5% increase x 5yrs)
cash flow is 29600/mo

How does this look?

[mike_mn]

I was just looking at my numbers compared to Jeffs...

Wow...this hits home as to how important it is to have all the information AAAAND interpret it properly. Both of us are estimating based on our intrepretation of how Jim gave us the info. Your estimates today make a big impact on what you pay today for it. I will be eager to hear from Jim on this.

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Mike, there are a number of things that we did different. I raised rents on the first month by $28 to cover water and then went up $10 in the last year.

I financed $180,000 for repairs and maintenance in the first month where you paid out of pocket for repairs.

You included $12,000/month for misc. income and I didn't. With my calcs, I got $13,000/month cashflow compaired to your $29,000 but if I add the $12k misc. income mine would come close to your projection at $25,000. Another point, too, is that you calculated cashflow for 200 lots and I only included 185. If I were to add the additional 15 units that would bring my cashflow up to about $28,000.

Taking two different approches and coming within $1k or so/month (and still making assumptions like we did) is not bad.

Perhaps we should callaborate on a park I'm looking at.

[mike_mn]

You are correct Jeff...but my point is made with your explainations...our numbers may have not been wrong necessarily, but how we used them and ended up in effectiveness can play a big role in how we value the same investment. Like I said, not that either of us is right or wrong, but what numbers are the safest to use for valuation today...

A property with 29k in cash flow vs 13k in cash flow is a huge difference...is my extra 12k justified? I suppose it might be, it might only supposed to be 6k for laundry and wireless with a full park, I just guessed it doubles with double the occupancy. This is where experiance counts when analyzing your investments and possible investments. Thus why I am eager to hear Jims perspective.

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Oh, no, Mike, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was just pointing out, that even though we took different approaches, we actually came up with very similar numbers.

[Debbie]

I keep coming up with different numbers late last night and again today.

I still come up with this :SM006:

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Deb, post your numbers and let's see what's going on.

[Debbie]

Deb, post your numbers and let's see what's going on.

Now you tell me :wacko: .....Trash day's today so you gotta give me a little time to do my homework again and I'll post it either tonight or tomorrow.

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

Now you tell me :wacko: .....Trash day's today so you gotta give me a little time to do my homework again and I'll post it either tonight or tomorrow.

yeah, yeah, yeah, anybody can make an excuse.......:whip:

[Debbie]

yeah, yeah, yeah, anybody can make an excuse.......:whip:

Never underestimate me, silly-bugger! hehehehehehehehehe

[Debbie]

I don't know about you guys....your calculations seems, I don't know, too liberal perhaps.

My way of budgeting is rather nitty-gritty type thingy. Probably too conservative. Obviously, the 1st year would be little profit as is.

How I'd probably deal, based on my understanding of Jim's information:

MHP Owner's current monthly expenses/profits:

13,775.00 - 95 lot rents
- 2,666.67 - water bills (2666.67 x 12 mos = 32k)
- 2,416.67 - expenses
- 1,500.00 - debt service
______________________
7,191.66 - monthly profits x 12 mos = 86,299.92/yr

I get agreement from MHP owner on L/O with no down payment, $750K @ 10% (30 amortization), payable in full in 10 years with 10 years extension.
That would come to $6,581.79 payable per month to the owner.

However, as part of the agreement, I deduct $909.96 per month out of the $6,581.79 to pay the city for road improvement. Reason being, I checked with city of Springfield, they would agree to 75k @ 8% for 10 years.

The debt service? That's their problem, not mine.....

I would forget about fixing up the laundry facility during my 1st year. There's plenty of laundry facilities nearby.....

This is what my budget would be on a monthly basis during the 1st year....

13,775.00 - 95 lot rents ($145.00 x 95 = 13,775)
- 2,666.67 - water bills (2666.67 x 12 mos = 32k)
- 2,416.67 - expenses
- 6,581.79 - L/O
_____________________
$2,109.87 monthly profits

In order to add on mh on unused lots, I would buy mh out of my own pockets.

- 1,000.00 - clean up/fix newly purchased MH
- 250.00 - used manual meter
____________________________
$859.87 monthly profit to be used for emergency expenses

By adding newly purchased MH and used manual meter each month, this is what I would have gained at end of the year:

12 MH (seller's finance) @ $250.00/mo = $3K x 12 months = $36K
12 now usuable lots @ 145.00/mo = $1740.00 x 12 months = $20,880
----------
gained profit $56,880

I'd probably keep $5k-$10k for job well done and the rest goes back into the MHP and repeat similiar process as well as fix laundry facility, etc.

This is all I've focused on, based on Jim's information. Anything beyond the 1st year.....I'll figure it out later but definitely not tonight! :D

[mike_mn]

Again, truely amazing that 3 folks come up with such different proformas given the same info.

I noticed that something I missed on mine was that I mistook Jims post about the laundry. He said 1k/mo for laundry not 6k/mo. That shrinks all my cashflow numbers down by 5k for first year. Which means -12k first year cash flow instead of my estimated 50k. However, any fair financing created for the 75k road project immediatly turns into a positive cash flow situation.

Seems to me that the most important negotiating items are:
-Road improvements - how they are paid, who pays, what terms are available.
-Water meters - For Jim, they seem to be free from another park owner that is upgrading. Can you just add them to the existing homes and start charging them? How are the lot leases written?
-What seems to be a feasible growth rate for the area in terms of home moved in? 1/mo - 2/mo? 5/mo?
-What if anything is important to the seller other than cashflow? Is he willing to take on the road improvements with the option consideration?

[Jim Johnson]

Again, truly amazing that 3 folks come up with such different proformas given the same info.

I noticed that something I missed on mine was that I mistook Jim's post about the laundry. He said 1k/mo for laundry not 6k/mo. That shrinks all my cash-flow numbers down by 5k for first year. Which means -12k first year cash flow instead of my estimated 50k. However, any fair financing created for the 75k road project immediately turns into a positive cash flow situation.

Seems to me that the most important negotiating items are:
-Road improvements - how they are paid, who pays, what terms are available.
Road improvements must be paid by someone, but not the city. The city is mandating they get done, they have about had it with the current owner. I have spoke with the city and they might be willing to work with a new owner/person if they can be convinced of the owners intent. They might give me the option to do it in phases...

-Water meters - For Jim, they seem to be free from another park owner that is upgrading. Can you just add them to the existing homes and start charging them? How are the lot leases written?
Most of the leases are now month to month. I would upgrade the meters and them require new 1 year leases be signed. These would reflect the new water agreement. Figure in could take a year to complete this process so you should phase in the water over a 12 month period.

-What seems to be a feasible growth rate for the area in terms of home moved in? 1/mo - 2/mo? 5/mo?
I think you can average 24 sales per year. The summer months at 3 per month, and in the winter 1 per month. Fall and spring at 2 per month.

-What if anything is important to the seller other than cash-flow? Is he willing to take on the road improvements with the option consideration?
The seller wants cash-flow. He currently get $3,600 per month and that number is trending down. He is not willing to put money into the park at all, all improvements must be made by the new owner/leaser.

Great questions... anyone else need more info?

[mike_mn]

Does the seller expect to be paid for the option or does he just want his cashflow? Can we assume the cost of the option is nominal consideration?

[mike_mn]

Revised Analysis:

Yr 1 observations:
As is income is 165,300
Invest 5k in laundry and wireless to get 1k/mo extra income
Invest nil in water meters to existing homes over year one for 50% savings in yr 1 of 15k.
Invest 75k in road, do your best to work with city for phased road improvements. Worst case, cough it up.

With these small changes, you end up with 177300 income yr 1 and 47k in expenses yr 1. With no increase in occupancy. That leaves the park with 130300 or 10858/mo for cash flow and debt service.

The sellers actual costs and cash flow are 1500/mo for debt service and 3600 cash flow. This ads up to $5100. I would negotiate that you pay the lender directly and then negotiate to pay him $3000/mo for your lease payment with 5% increases each yr. I am going to suspect worst case lease payment will be 5100/mo to cover his cash flow and debt service.

at with 10858/mo cash flow you are left with 5758/mo cash flow as is. This still leaves the laundry and road improvement issue. Since you have no cash into this thus far, using equity loan other owned company/property you own might be beneficial. I will suspect that getting 80k over 5yrs at 10% would be relatively easy. That leaves a payment of 1700/mo, lowering your cash flow to 4058/mo.

If you average an increase of 1 home/mo winter 2 spr and fall and 3 summer with 1000 in lot setup at 12 months, you add 24k costs and 21750 in income.

Yr1 look back proforma
Income
95@145=165300
Laundry=12000
24 new occupants over 12 months=21750
Total Income yr1=199,050

Expenses
park expenses=32k
water expenses phased out this year=15k
Capital Improvement loan repayment 80k for 5yr@10%=19116
Lot setups=24k
Lease and owner debt service payment=61,200
Total expenses yr1=151,316

NOI=47,734

Capital Improvements
Laundry and Internet=5k
Road Improvements=75k
Lot Setup costs=24k
Total capital improvements=104k

Cash on cash return on investment of 104k = 45.9%


Year 5 look back:
Income
191@145=332340
Laundry=24000
9 new occupants over first 6 months or yr 5 for full occ=13221
Total Income yr1=382,782

Expenses
park expenses=32k(hmm....how is expenses affected by occupancy?)
Capital Improvement loan repayment paid off at yr 5 end=19116
Lease and owner debt service payment=73200(5% increase on lease per yr)
Total expenses yr1=124,316

NOI=258,466

[Jim Johnson]

Does the seller expect to be paid for the option or does he just want his cashflow? Can we assume the cost of the option is nominal consideration?
The seller is pretty proud of the park, I am not sure why. in passing, before the road situation came to light... there was mention of $100,000 by him. I do not agree with that number... In light of the capital improvements required for lease up and city code requirements... that number needs to be revised. I say that knowing he will not put any money to capital improvements...

[mike_mn]

The seller is pretty proud of the park, I am not sure why. in passing, before the road situation came to light... there was mention of $100,000 by him. I do not agree with that number... In light of the capital improvements required for lease up and city code requirements... that number needs to be revised. I say that knowing he will not put any money to capital improvements...


I think yr 1 is going to be skinny as you mentioned before and may cost you some cash out of your own piggy bank. But your invested cash will easily be returned to you within 18 months. That doesn't leave much on opportunity cost due to the time, scale and effort it will take to get the park back on track.

Getting those road improvements payable over 10yrs and the cost of the option are key items in whether or not this deal ends up a home run. I think the strike price in 10yrs may be a good lever to use with this guy. Even at 1MM or 1.25MM you are still in a good position to make a handsome profit. The bigger payoff for him at the end may give you a better negotiating chip with the option cost.

[Debbie]

It's been almost a month.....I didn't think we were done here yet.

May we continue to be educated, Jim?

Debbie

[commercialqueen]

I have funding for Parks.
Contact me.
85% LTV 30yr amort depending on fico
I can find you the downpayment.
Under 1 mil OK
I also fund Apartment complexes. Minimum 100k Max 5 mil
Commercialqueen

[SPIVALAW]

I have a 40 ac park we are buying.
$5M price
we have $2.5M dn payment.
What term and rate you offer on $2.5M?