PDA

View Full Version : cash flow of house to sell or not


mctripat
10-16-2006, 06:53 PM
My husband and I have a rental problem/house we need help with. We have made a lot of bad decisions about our rental. Problem: we have a lot of personal debt due to not keeping house rented: making repairs, husband loosing job etc., health problems, time needed to drive to rental and back etc; plus we spent 25,000 renovating house from 1992 to 1997

Why was the house not rented? My husband had problems at his job. we found out he had MS in 1997(low energy level) Had lots of family problems, deaths, depression etc 2002 till 2005. We had to do the work ourselves. We could not find workers who would show up to do repairs. My depression is under control now.

Our biggest problem is our basis is too low. What can we do legally to change it? Putting in new windows, furnace etc does not help enough because they are depreciated over such a long time.. Our CPA added $5000 to our basis for improvements mentioned above. Our house is being depreciated at 25,000 a year or about 900 a year.

If we put the $25,000 on a home equity loan it would help a little. But we still have other problems. The house is 22 miles a way from our house 45 min each way there and back. The hardware stores are 30 min drive or more away should we need to buy something we forgot to bring.

The house is close to the university and tech school. It is hard to find responsible people under age 25. Families live around there too but, they are small lower income families.... what I mean is they can not afford to rent a decent house in a better neighborhood at $900. I guess the people have credit problems and are living on the edge. Some of the people are too transient making the crime rate higher. Others are 50ish and 60ish retired people living on a fixed income.

Also the house was built in 1950. Renters keep destroying inside. The house is not in a very good part of town. some parts are worse but most are better. The rent that can be charged is not increasing fast enough to offset the repairs that need to be made. The most we can get is $750.00 to $800.00

Also house has a flat roof. Other stuff is falling apart too that has no bearing on being rented. The house is just old and hard to maintain. The house is 2 bedroom 1 bath, converted garage. It can be sold or rented as a 3 bedroom. Most houses rent for around $900 to $1000. Houses in the newer parts of town rent for $1100 to $1500.


The house is in a older part of town, with most shopping 5 to 10 miles away and is not appreciating fast enough. ( maybe 3 to 5% a year) other parts of town are appreciating at 5%. Newer parts of town with 1200 to 1800 square feet houses, 3 bedroom, 2 bath and 2 car garage are going up some years 7% or more. They have major shopping within 5 miles and better elementary schools. Mid and high schools in this area are good but crowded. New schools are being built and planned..

Old house is paid for. We are thinking about trying to do a 1031 exchange and get a house within 5 miles of our house. The problem is qualifying for the new mortgage... ( We had a lot of credit card debt $60,000 because my husband lost his job in 1999. He got new job in beginning of 2001 at lower salary including benefits. So we have a large home equity loan on our house)

Old house is worth $110,000 to $120,000, a decent new house is probably about $220,000 if you can find one. Most houses in the area are $240,000 and up for kind of standard house (1200 to 1800 square feet). Most houses close to my home are newer, built for 1989 on... in some neighborhoods 1995 to 1997, 2000 to 2004 etc etc.

We hate to loose $20,000 to capital gains and other taxes. We kept hanging on to old house in case husband had to go on social security disability and we had to have a cheaper house. He did not want us to be homeless(non home owners)

We think we can maintain a house within 5 miles of us that is newer and closer to hardware stores. We also can attract other kinds of renters, more affluent people and middle class families. We can search for good property management companies.

I do think rent needs to be $1200 a month max. People that can pay that can afford to buy a house. I think houses that rent for more than that might be empty a long time.. because how many people will pay $1300 a month and up rent? Depreciation is what would make/ or save us money on an newer house.

If we did a 1031 exchange we would probably need to find owner financing, after the rest was rolled into it. I would like to not finance any more than $130,000 after doing the 1031 exchange. I would like to make around $10,000 cash flow on a rental house each year. That is the amount that makes it worth the work, time and money to me. We need the money to help us get out of debt.

Also if we were able to buy a house around $220,000 closer to us we might eventually sell our residence and move into it. If the house we can afford is smaller than we want, in around 5 years we would have enough equity to do another 1031 exchange. I think the smallest house we could live in comfortably is around 1700 square feet.. We are planning on staying in our residence for 10 years or more if possible.

I have to find a job to help get us out of debt. A year later I am starting to work on a Masters degree. I have to make more money. My husband is doing pretty good with his MS. In a few years, loosing money on the rental(annually) would be ok due to me working . We would pay less taxes which would save us money.

I have watched houses being built and checked out neighborhoods since 1991
I have a good idea of what some houses cost new and how fast they appreciated. I know what builders made cheaper houses and who the semicustom builder were. I can learn about newer semicustom builders. Most areas where new houses are being built now are more than 5 miles from our house, or too expensive($300,000 +) or large for us to use as a rental.


Our other alternatives to getting out of debt, besides what I mentioned are going to a consumer debt counseling agency or declaring bankruptcy. We have very good credit and always have. Part of the debt from when my husband lost his job is because we were supposed to get a settlement from his ex employer but, the company and individual ower declared bankruptcy.

What do you think the solutions might be? You can send e mails to mctripat@comcast.net if you would like to. I have not been able to be on the computer much due to working at the house.

Thanks

Trish

Debbie
10-16-2006, 07:18 PM
Your post is not being ignored.

You have provided alot of informations which is very good because we can give you better suggestions.

In the meantime, let me give this some thoughts and I will get back to you today. There's no doubt that other fambly members will give you advice/suggestion soon today/tonight.

Hang in there, solution will come to you soon!

Dan Auito
10-16-2006, 07:34 PM
Until further consideration is applied, my initial response would be to try and unload it at the best price possible to recoup what cash you can while you can, this alligator is dragging you down with a death roll towards your bankruptcy proceedings.

Cut your losses and pay the taxes and pay down your existing/outstanding debt as best you can with any remaining proceeds.

More to follow.

mike_mn
10-17-2006, 01:23 AM
If I interpret the post properly, you own the "bad" house that is 20 miles away from you free and clear? No mortgage? right? If so, if you have a pulse and sounds like you ahve good credit, you can easily get a loan for 50% of the value of the house. Why not just cash out the equity in that house, continue to rent it and payoff your debt all at the same time? You could exchange it, but sounds like unless you spend a bunch of time waiting for a cherry to pick, you will be in the same situation cash flow wise due to the higher prices closer to you and rents that wont cover your expenses well.

Also, as for your comment about why someone would spend 12-1300/mo on renting when they can buy for that much. That is something that most homeowners will never understand and most renters do out of necessity. Bad credit, no down paymnet, unable to make the higher payments with no money down loans, etc...I have a tenant who has been paying 1675/mo + late fee most months for about 18months now. They most certainly could buy this house even no moneydown and have a paymnet close to what they pay in rent. Take into account the tax deductable interest and the payment would be muchlower to buy. They are former home owners and business owners. Unless their business takes off, they will probably be paying me that much for quite some time. Go Figure

Debbie
10-17-2006, 02:15 AM
The way I interpret, you are tired of the distance traveling as well as the inconviniences on lack of required hardware store nearby. Plus, the age of the house and it's needs for further rehab.

It certainly sounds like emotionally, you want to trade it in for a "closer to home" property as well as "younger" house.

Financially, there are ways of saving the house and your finances.

However, the emotion aspect outweighs the financial aspect. If you haven't already, eventually you'll grow to dislike the property and it certainly takes away the joy of landlording/investor.

Therefore, IMHO, it would be in your best interest to sell and do 1031 to avoid capital gains.

While I acknowledge that you need money to cover, among other things, the loss of paychecks, it certainly would benefit you to pull some equity out of the house. This will carry you until the market (ie spring time) changes for the better. Not to say that you shouldn't put the house up for sale now---just be prepare to go through winter without a buyer.

If I were in your shoes, I'd rent Month to Month until February. Do some necessary rehab and put it up for sale. Otherwise, lower the sales price (if no rehab) as is.

Keep us posted Trish.

Debbie

P.S. - very, very, very bad idea on declaring bankruptcy. Please re-think it!
Credit Counseling will help you out big time. But, be sure it's legitimate--contact your attorney general to determine the legitimacy of any available counseling in your town.

Tim
10-17-2006, 02:59 AM
I know several people who declared bankruptcy and then regretted it for a long time.

The reality is that there are very few instances where bankruptcy is really necessary. In most cases, you can easily work out payment plans with your creditors and/or negotiate for pennies on the dollar to make them go away.

As to your property, I agree with Debbie. It seems to be more of an emotional issue than a purely financial issue. You have lots of options but the best solution may be to do a 1031 for a newer and closer property.

Of course you could sell the existing home to someone and carry the paper. That would give you a monthly income and you could then sell all or part of that note to wipe out your personal debt.

FL Beachgirl
10-17-2006, 10:41 PM
P.S. - very, very, very bad idea on declaring bankruptcy. Please re-think it!
Credit Counseling will help you out big time. But, be sure it's legitimate--contact your attorney general to determine the legitimacy of any available counseling in your town.

Credit counseling looks just as bad on your credit report as a bankruptcy does. Take that from someone who has btdt and regretted it. 12 years later we are finally crawling out of the bad credit score and junk in our file hole and things are picking up.
Find a way to get yourself out of your debts without the use of bankruptcy or credit counseling, otherwise you are peddling backwards.

Good luck!
Jennifer

Debbie
10-17-2006, 11:17 PM
Credit counseling looks just as bad on your credit report as a bankruptcy does. Take that from someone who has btdt and regretted it. 12 years later we are finally crawling out of the bad credit score and junk in our file hole and things are picking up.
Find a way to get yourself out of your debts without the use of bankruptcy or credit counseling, otherwise you are peddling backwards.

Good luck!
Jennifer

I wasn't aware of that. Perhaps things changed over time.

My cousin used credit counseling with no "ding" on his credit report. But that was back in 1999. I helped him find the counselor and it worked really well. Of course, he had to have his cousin (me) to look over his shoulder for awhile to ensure he stays on his budget.

P.S. - don't tell my aunt and uncle....

Jeffery (LCLA)
10-18-2006, 12:30 AM
I agree with Jennifer. I've looked through credit qualifications for many different mortgage lenders and all of the ones that I looked at frowned on structured credit counseling. The mortgage co's viewed it as BK. One reason why it's so bad is that CC takes many years to complete, whrereas BK is done and over with.

Tim
10-18-2006, 03:53 AM
Yes, entering a program like CCC is treated like a Chapter 13 bankruptcy by lenders. The advantage is that it is you can get the CCC entry removed once you complete the program and stay clean a couple of years.

Lenders will glady write new loans to anyone completing a bankruptcy program (Chap 13 OR 7) right after discharge because there is a time limit before the debtor could file again.

Bankruptcy should be seen as an absolute last resort and then thought about again until another solution is found.

Most states limit the total amount that anyone winning a judgment can garnish from wages. In some states it is as little as 10%, most are around the 25% mark.

If your debt is the unsecured variety (credit cards) then the lender has every incentive to work with you. They don't really have much recourse. They can go to court and get a judgment but that would probably result in lower payments than what you would work out with them.

I can't imagine a scenario where bankruptcy or credit counseling would be the best choice. I'm sure one exists, at least theoretically, but for every one I've ever heard I can think of at least two other options that are better.

If you need help figuring out how to get out of this mess, I would suggest you buy "The Total Money Makeover" by Dave Ramsey. I don't agree with everything he says but he is dead on in his advice about dealing with unsecured creditors.