Let's Talk About Rights.

[Dan Auito]

Welcome to America, now get to work!:smiley4: :whip: :SM128: Heh Heh Heh


This is probably one of the best e-mails I've seen in a long, long time. The following has been attributed to State Representative Mitchell Aye from GA. This guy should run for President one day...


"We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines We hold these truths to be s! elf evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights."

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful, do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

ARTI CLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the ! electric chair.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have t he right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.

ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from! (lastly....) NOW..

ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!!!!

[landtrustwizard]

That is very nice, but very simplistic. You DO have the right to expect honesty in government and this administration has failed miserably in this regard across the board. It HAS succeeded, however, in stripping the right to "habeas corpus" from our list of freedoms. If it is our grandchildren we are trying to protect, this so-called "conservative" regime has mortgaged our grandchildren's financial futures and they will be paying for the sins of Bush for generations to come, not to mention the increased risk to their security from his bonehead international exploits. The world no longer respects us. How sad.

[Debbie]

I don't have any particular reason to google Mitchel Aye therefore I have no idea if I would like him or not.

But I will say one thing---his Bill of Non-Rights certainly has common sense!
Just for that subject, I totally agree with Mitchel Aye.

Thanx for the post Dan---I copied/pasted for future reference.

Debbie

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

That's just absolutely great. I love it. It should be renamed The Bill of Common Sense, though.

[Dan Auito]

All in favor say AYE!

[dealmaker]

Too bad this Rep. doesn't know what he's talking about, or understand the first thing about the recent laws passed in congress.

secure the blessings of debt free liberty; our national debt is at record levels and growing. You can't cut taxes and INCREASE tax revenue. It doesn't work that way. The People's Republic of China is well on its way to owning us.

turn the channel; yes but I'm sure from this guy's rant that he's a Republican, and they won't do that, they get the FCC to tell me that I can't watch what I want. Let's face it NO ONE actually saw Janet Jackson's nipple, they just kept replaying the tape for themselves into they worked themselves into a sweat.

You do not have t he right to the possessions of others; unless you're the CEO of a large corporation and you raid the treasury for your own enrichment, then its OK

You do not have the right to free health care; unless you're a member of congress!

I get so sick of these guys, constantly yelling about problems that exist only in their own minds. You're a legislator damn it, you were sent their to do something POSITIVE, not bitch about things. This country progressed for 200 years because our elected "leaders" knew how to compromise and so something good for EVERYONE, not just the people who shovel money into their campaign chest.

Unfortunately for the country the current crop in Washington and our state capitals are giving us the best government that MONEY can buy, for the people giving the money. Which means most of us are getting HOSED.

shut up Representative, go DO SOMETHING.

dealmaker

[Dan Auito]

Hmmm maybe I should rethink my position here. Good points Dealmaker, no denying they are truer than any words spoken from Washington in a loooong time.

[Aldo]

Good thoughts on both sides of the fence, but that doesn't answer my question. I'd like to know why I have to press "1" for English.

[landtrustwizard]

As they say in the Guinness commercials: BRILLIANT! I salute you.

:praise: :SM058: :SM076:

[DSutter]

That is very nice, but very simplistic. You DO have the right to expect honesty in government and this administration has failed miserably in this regard across the board. It HAS succeeded, however, in stripping the right to "habeas corpus" from our list of freedoms. If it is our grandchildren we are trying to protect, this so-called "conservative" regime has mortgaged our grandchildren's financial futures and they will be paying for the sins of Bush for generations to come, not to mention the increased risk to their security from his bonehead international exploits. The world no longer respects us. How sad.
Wow, please explain exactly how a right to "habeas corpus" has been stripped from our list of freedoms. That is, assuming you know what "habeas corpus" is and what it protects.

[DSutter]

Too bad this Rep. doesn't know what he's talking about, or understand the first thing about the recent laws passed in congress.
Please, enlighten us.

secure the blessings of debt free liberty; our national debt is at record levels and growing. You can't cut taxes and INCREASE tax revenue. It doesn't work that way. The People's Republic of China is well on its way to owning us.
And yet, every single time tax rates have been reduced tax revenues have increased! I guess the laws of econmics didn't understand the lberal talking points.

turn the channel; yes but I'm sure from this guy's rant that he's a Republican, and they won't do that, they get the FCC to tell me that I can't watch what I want. Let's face it NO ONE actually saw Janet Jackson's nipple, they just kept replaying the tape for themselves into they worked themselves into a sweat.
ROTFLMAO.

You do not have t he right to the possessions of others; unless you're the CEO of a large corporation and you raid the treasury for your own enrichment, then its OK
You should read some history, you might learn a bit.

You do not have the right to free health care; unless you're a member of congress!
Wow, and just what party was it that introduced the very favorable health care plan for Congress?

I get so sick of these guys, constantly yelling about problems that exist only in their own minds. You're a legislator damn it, you were sent their to do something POSITIVE, not bitch about things. This country progressed for 200 years because our elected "leaders" knew how to compromise and so something good for EVERYONE, not just the people who shovel money into their campaign chest.
Compromise only works when both sides are reasonable.

Unfortunately for the country the current crop in Washington and our state capitals are giving us the best government that MONEY can buy, for the people giving the money. Which means most of us are getting HOSED.
LOL, that's really good. So, you admit that McCain-Feingold was a mistake?

shut up Representative, go DO SOMETHING.

dealmaker
We need to go back to part-time government like the founding fathers set up.

[eldorado]

Wow, please explain exactly how a right to "habeas corpus" has been stripped from our list of freedoms. That is, assuming you know what "habeas corpus" is and what it protects.


Your rights and the bill of rights went out the window with 9-11 / Patriot Act.
Now, Bill H.R. 3162 guarantees it!

[landtrustwizard]

can turn the word liberal into a dirty word. What is a liberal? The dictionary says:

synonyms LIBERAL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/liberal), GENEROUS (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/generous), BOUNTIFUL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bountiful), MUNIFICENT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/munificent) mean giving or given freely and unstintingly. LIBERAL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/liberal) suggests openhandedness in the giver and largeness in the thing or amount given <a teacher liberal with her praise>. GENEROUS (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/generous) stresses warmhearted readiness to give more than size or importance of the gift <a generous offer of help>. BOUNTIFUL (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bountiful) suggests lavish, unremitting giving or providing <children spoiled by bountiful presents>. MUNIFICENT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/munificent) suggests a scale of giving appropriate to lords or princes <a munificent foundation grant>. http://www.m-w.com/images/pixt.gif
Jesus was a Liberal.



Conservative:
Strongly favoring retention of the existing order: orthodox (http://www.answers.com/topic/orthodox), right (http://www.answers.com/topic/right), rightist (http://www.answers.com/topic/rightism), right-wing (http://www.answers.com/topic/right-wing-politics), Tory (http://www.answers.com/topic/tory), traditionalist (http://www.answers.com/topic/traditionalism), traditionalistic (http://www.answers.com/topic/traditionalistic-synonyms). See keep/release (http://www.answers.com/topic/keep-release).
Kept within sensible limits: discreet (http://www.answers.com/topic/discreet), moderate (http://www.answers.com/topic/moderate), reasonable (http://www.answers.com/topic/reasonable), restrained (http://www.answers.com/topic/restrained), temperate (http://www.answers.com/topic/temperate). See plain/fancy (http://www.answers.com/topic/plain-fancy), restraint/unrestraint (http://www.answers.com/topic/restraint-unrestraint).
Clinging to obsolete ideas: backward (http://www.answers.com/topic/backward), reactionary (http://www.answers.com/topic/reactionary), unprogressive (http://www.answers.com/topic/unprogressive). See politics (http://www.answers.com/topic/politics-similar-words).Nuff said. I am PROUD TO BE A LIBERAL.


In other words, Liberals care about others, conservatives care about themselves.

[Debbie]

I'm proud to be a conservative democrat! (Not too far left, not too far right).

In other words, I vote who I think will do a better job, regardless if he/she is a republican, democrat, independent, "other". Sometimes, I vote no one if I think no one can do the job right.

[Randy (SELA)]

Just curious, but if liberals are so generous, bountiful, and munificent then why are the liberal members of congress and the senate much wealthier than their republican counterparts?

[eldorado]

Just curious, but if liberals are so generous, bountiful, and munificent then why are the liberal members of congress and the senate much wealthier than their republican counterparts?

That's misinformation because the actually report their income! LOL

[Debbie]

Eldorado is correct. I'm a little surprised that you weren't aware of that Randy.

Like I said before, I'm for neither party(ies), just the best person for the job. Therefore I'm not attempting to be a bully for what I'm about to say: Have you noticed that far more conservatives "owns" plenty of entities? Heck, they wouldn't be terribly smart to report their incomes....

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it (or the opposite)......

[Randy (SELA)]

Give me a break Deb! None of them report their income accurately! To say that liberals care more about the poor than the conservatives is bull crap because neither one of them do. It's one big happy millionaire's club!

[DSutter]

Liberals (Democrats) are only generous with other people's money.

[DSutter]

Your rights and the bill of rights went out the window with 9-11 / Patriot Act.
Now, Bill H.R. 3162 guarantees it!

That's just dumb. Neither of those took any rights away from any US Citizen or anyone subject to the protections of the US Constitution.

[DSutter]

That's misinformation because the actually report their income! LOL
You mean like Harry Reid with his land deals in Nevada?

Give me a break.

I'm not really happy with either party at the moment but at least I know that the Republicans will work to provide for the common defense with IS an enumerated responsibility in the Constitution.

The Democrats are seeking to take money from others at the point of a gun and use that moeny to buy votes from those less intelligent than a rock.

[Randy (SELA)]

Liberals (Democrats) are only generous with other people's money.

You got that right

[Randy (SELA)]

Eldorado is correct. I'm a little surprised that you weren't aware of that Randy.

Like I said before, I'm for neither party(ies), just the best person for the job. Therefore I'm not attempting to be a bully for what I'm about to say: Have you noticed that far more conservatives "owns" plenty of entities? Heck, they wouldn't be terribly smart to report their incomes....

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it (or the opposite)......

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.asp?type=W&cycle=2005&filter=C

A great site to learn what all your favorite politicians are up to ;)

[Debbie]

Give me a break Deb! None of them report their income accurately! To say that liberals care more about the poor than the conservatives is bull crap because neither one of them do. It's one big happy millionaire's club!

WHOA! Time out!

Re-read my last post.

I did not say they reported accurately or inaccurately.

I did not say that liberals (or conservatives) care more.

[Randy (SELA)]

You're correct. You said Eldorado was correct. Is that correct?

[Debbie]

You're correct. You said Eldorado was correct. Is that correct?

Yes, Eldorado IS correct.

Why? Re-read his post. Then, re-read it again.

I'll give you a hint----pay closer attention to his last word on his post.

Better yet, I'll tell you why Eldorado is correct----his last word was "LOL".

[Randy (SELA)]

Lol ;)

[Debbie]

Lol ;)

:SM082: .

[Jeffery (LCLA)]

:SM082: .


Quit that darn huggin' and get back to arguin'

[landtrustwizard]

Enjoy: http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_Olbermann_laments_death_of_habeas_1011.html

:smiley5:

[landtrustwizard]

who says Liberals have more money. You need to understand how government works. Here's some info for you:

Since Mr. [George W.] Bush took office in 2001, the federal government has awarded more than $3 billion in contracts to the President's elite 2004 Texas fund-raisers, their businesses, and lobbying clients. In Florida, massive sugar companies and development firms led by Bush Pioneers and Rangers have reaped millions of dollars from government policies; and top Ohio fund-raisers collected more than $1.2 billion in taxpayers' dollars for their companies and lobbying clients." Toledo Blade, 19 December 2005 (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1219-02.htm)
Charles Beggs Moncrief of Moncrief Oil in Fort Worth
Tom Noe (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tom_Noe&action=edit), indicted on three felony charges that he illegally laundered money into the Bush re-election campaign.
Lonnie "Bo" Pilgrim, the chairman of Texas-based Pilgrim's Pride, collected nearly $60 million from the federal government for selling poultry to the Agricultural Marketing Service, a government agency that assists farmers and provides food for the poor since Bush took office in 2001.
Of the more than $3 billion in federal contracts awarded to President Bush's key Texas fund-raisers and their lobbying clients, more than $1.7 billion went to the customers of Tom Loeffler (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tom_Loeffler&action=edit), a lobbyist, former Texas congressman, and Bush Ranger.
Two of President Bush's top Florida fund-raisers in 2004 were Jose "Pepe" Fanjul, president of Florida Crystals Corp., and Robert Edward Coker, senior vice president of U.S. Sugar.
Erle Nye (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Erle_Nye), a 2004 Pioneer and the former chairman of TXU, a large Texas energy company which has collected more than $147 million in federal contracts for supplying gas and electric services to several agencies, including the Department of Defense, since 2001.War profiteering

Margie Burns, "All in the (Profiteering) First Family," (http://www.populist.com/04.7.burns.html) Prince George's Journal (Maryland), April 15, 2004:
"St. Louis-based Engineered Support Systems Inc. (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Engineered_Support_Systems_Inc.&action=edit) (EASI), where William H.T. Bush (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=William_H.T._Bush), an uncle of George W. Bush (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_W._Bush), joined the board of directors in 2000, is a major military contractor."
George H.W. Bush (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=George_H.W._Bush) and the Carlyle Group (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Carlyle_Group): "Carlyle recently sold $335 million in stock from its chief military subsidiary."
Neil M. Bush (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Neil_M._Bush): "obtained a $60,000-per-year contract from a principal in D.C.-based New Bridge Strategies (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=New_Bridge_Strategies), a private firm set up to generate contracts in Iraq."
Marvin P. Bush (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marvin_P._Bush): "A controversial $327 million contract awarded in January by the US Coalition Provisional Authority (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Coalition_Provisional_Authority) (CPA) in Iraq potentially benefited Winston Partners (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Winston_Partners&action=edit), the [MPB's] private investment firm." NOTE: Marvin Bush owned the company that had responsibility for security for the WTC and the airports involved in 9/11. How convenient.
"Other companies in Winston Partners' portfolio, including AMSEC (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=AMSEC&action=edit), where Bush's partner, L. Scott Andrews (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=L._Scott_Andrews&action=edit), sits on the board of directors, also benefit from federal contracts. The new CEO of AMSEC, Michael Braham (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Michael_Braham&action=edit), formerly worked for L. Paul Bremer (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=L._Paul_Bremer), now head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq.""These business links suggest that Ahmed Chalabi (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Ahmed_Chalabi), a London-based Iraqi exile, has ties to the White House along with his known ties to Vice President Dick Cheney (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Dick_Cheney) and the Pentagon (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pentagon). At a House Government Reform Committee hearing on Iraq contracts on March 11, some congressmen began to raise questions about private connections behind some of the contracts. However, committee Chairman Tom Davis (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tom_Davis), R-Va., cut off the questions before witnesses could answer. "It looks more than ever as though Bush planned all along to invade Iraq, but whatever his motives, it is certain that the war benefits his own family." "In the 2002 election cycle, defense firms, led by Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, poured over $16 million into Political Action Committees (PAC) at a ratio of 65% for Republicans and 35% for Democrats. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, those figures appear to be holding in the run up to the 2004 elections as well."

These are indisputable facts as to the depth of corruption this Republican administration represents.

:whip: :SM094:

[DSutter]

You know, Landtrustwzard, there is no medication that can help with your apparent cranial rectosis but knowledge will certainly cure it.

I encourage you to expand your horizons beyond the piffle from places like moveon.org. Get all of the facts and then, perhaps, your cranial rectosis will begin to dislodge.

[landtrustwizard]

Spoken like a true Republican. When you are confronted with facts, blame the source.

:rockon::rockon::rockon:

[Debbie]

I gotta be honest here....

Considering that BOTH parties have caused so much debates and anger among us yet all of us concur that BOTH parties are dishonest and irresponsible. So, why in the world do we need to take political sides?

Whether anybody agree or disagree, we as the citizens DO have the power to fire ALL politicians who have proven to be irresponsible and dishonest. Replace them with citizens who can learn to fight FOR Americans. Forget the Republicans. Forget the Democrats. Forget Independents and the such.

All I really know is, I find it very disheartening that we "must" vote for many politicians who really have no business being politicians. If we all would demand to include the ballot of "NO VOTE TO ANY PARTIES FOR (insert here)" that would send a very strong message.

I vote to eliminate the 'unworthy politicians' and replace them with highly motivated and honest citizens whose only interest are to protect USA.

[Dan Auito]

I believe this is the last time I will post something that leads towards Politics, It's all about managing public affairs for personal gain, so with that said, pick the lesser of two evils and work hard at covering your own tail, Uncle Skunkle isn't going to do it.

[Randy (SELA)]

Hey Gary,
How do you feel about the California Public Teacher's Retirement System being one of Haliburton's biggest shareholders?

[Randy (SELA)]

Speaking of war-profiteering, there were many no-bid contracts awarded by Clinton to Haliburton, especially during the Balkans war. And if I remember correctly, the last no-bid contract Clinton awarded to Haliburton before he left office was for construction at Guantonamo Bay. Ain't that a hoot?

[Randy (SELA)]

As far as understanding how goverment works, let me explain to you how goverment works. When the Republican are in power, all of their buddies get the big fat contracts and kickbacks. When the Democrats are in power, all of their buddies get the big fat contracts and kickbacks. You, for some reason, just can't seem to get over this mental block that Democrats aren't on the take too. They all are.

[TommyOH]

I stay away from politics because it became a "lesser of two evils" choice long ago. I agree with Debbie. Give me someone worth voting for, or give me a spot to check that says I'm not happy with any of the choices.

[Aldo]

Latin for Poli translates to 'many'.

And, tics translates to 'blood sucking creatures'.

I know that to be true because I bought an encyclopedia at e-Bay and I got that puppy for just nine cents, plus $752.49 for shipping. LOL

Okay, to my real point. We're investors here in whatever form. We're here to learn and offer help from/to other investors. I don't care about dumbocrat or repooplican stuff. I care about learning and sharing with our fambly.

I'm beginning to see genuine dissention between a few fambly members and I have a problem with that. We're here with a common cause, that being REI, and that's the intent of Dan's great site. Whether one prefers a Replicrat or a Demorcan has nothing to do with our mission. More importantly, some of the issues presented are state-specific. How does that make sense at a nationally recognized RE web site?

Opposing opinions are invited.

[landtrustwizard]

Halliburton made millions during Vietnam as well. They did it under the name Brown & Root, one of their "subsidiaries". I dislike politicians and believe that lawyers should not be allowed to run for public office. Personally, I like Obama because he is a total Centrist and is conservative on some issues, liberal on others. A common sense type of guy and very brilliant, unlike most politicians.

:SM083: :beerchug: :SM015:

[DSutter]

Halliburton made millions during Vietnam as well. They did it under the name Brown & Root, one of their "subsidiaries". I dislike politicians and believe that lawyers should not be allowed to run for public office. Personally, I like Obama because he is a total Centrist and is conservative on some issues, liberal on others. A common sense type of guy and very brilliant, unlike most politicians.

:SM083: :beerchug: :SM015:
It's piffle like this from you that causes those of us who don't suffer from cranial rectosis to laugh at you.

You say lawyers should not be allowed to run for office and yet you support Obama. Either you didn't know that he is a lawyer, in which case you are very uninformed, or you are a hypocrit. If there is another explanation I am missing, please enlighten me.

Oh and as to Halliburton, you seem to be forgetting there are very few companies in the world that do what they do. For example, please tell me the name of another company that has the ability to deploy EVERYTHING needed to go to Iraq and rebuild (and in many cases build) an electrical generation and distribution infrastructure. The same for a water system.

Which, explains why Halliburton and its subsidiaries are the preferred foreign aid contractors by both parties. They are the only company that can step up and provide the services required.

See, those who spout this piffle don't have the first clue about the complexity of the problems faced in situations like this.

But, please, prove me wrong. Tell us who is the alternative to Halliburton? Then tell us why they are such poor business people that they don't bid on these projects. Less than 5% of these projects have been "no-bid" contracts. You might want to do some research to understand how, when and why "no-bid" contracts are awarded and just as importantly, how they are monitored just to round out your knowledge.

[DSutter]

Latin for Poli translates to 'many'.

And, tics translates to 'blood sucking creatures'.

I know that to be true because I bought an encyclopedia at e-Bay and I got that puppy for just nine cents, plus $752.49 for shipping. LOL

Okay, to my real point. We're investors here in whatever form. We're here to learn and offer help from/to other investors. I don't care about dumbocrat or repooplican stuff. I care about learning and sharing with our fambly.

I'm beginning to see genuine dissention between a few fambly members and I have a problem with that. We're here with a common cause, that being REI, and that's the intent of Dan's great site. Whether one prefers a Replicrat or a Demorcan has nothing to do with our mission. More importantly, some of the issues presented are state-specific. How does that make sense at a nationally recognized RE web site?

Opposing opinions are invited.


No offense meant, but you are either very young or very naive if you think that politics doesn't affect your success as an investor.

As to your dissention comment, first your use is wrong leading me to believe you might have meant another word, but that isn't important to my point.

Before you shut down discussion, again, you should remember that if two people agree on everything, one of them is not needed.

[landtrustwizard]

D Sutter,

I am posting on the topic. You are making personally disparaging remarks against forum rules. Lighten up and enjoy watching the beginning of the end for the Bush cabal. Even Richard Perle and James Baker have turned against him. Poor George. He won't be able to fully establish a fascist govt. after all. Came close, though.

His grandfather, Prescott, tried the same thing. He, JP Morgan, Dupont, and Remington plotted the assassination of FDR in 1934 with the intention of installing a fascist regime here in the US. Only the courageous efforts of Gen. Smedley Butler stopped them. FDR confiscated several of Bush's businesses for "trading with the enemy" and laundering money for Hitler. What a role model for Dubya.

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George Bush (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/movies/0805041bush.mov)

As to the alternative for Halliburton from whom Cheney is still collecting millions (can you say "conflict of interest"?), NO WAR!

:SM013: :rockon: :SM081:

[Dan Auito]

I'd have to agree, that "cranial rectosis" name calling is uncalled for from anyone here on the boards.

I've never deleted an entire thread but this one is leading toward its own demise.

[mike_mn]

I think all the former proponants of the war on terror that voted with Bush to send in troops are correct. We should get out of Iraq...But I don't think we should do it until we get all the troops out of germany left there since world war 2 first...oh yeah, we should send home the troops from afganistan probably before that too...and Japan too...we should leave there too before we leave Iraq. First in first out seems fair to me.

[Tim]

The problem with discussing politics in a forum like this is standards of acceptable proof...

There aren't any here.

That's not always a bad thing, it just means that this type of venue makes a poor choice for political and religious discussions.

On my paid membership site political discussions abound and yes all views are presented, discussed and debated. The difference is the expectation of proof. It's not that I created a long list of what is acceptable proof, it is generally left up to the members. Most of the members there are very well read, respect each other and since they generally read very fast there is little cost to actually reviewing evidence and proofs presented.

I'm happy to say that real flare-ups are rare and are generally dealt with by the membership. For example, earlier this year a new member arrived on the scene and was determined to prove that conservatives are evil and liberals are good. Not generally a problem except they were light in proof to back up their opinions. The other members there very quickly pointed that out and helped this new member learn how to do research. The first thing they recommended to them was, of course, speed reading because to sort through the ocean of information available you can't do it if you read the way you were taught in grade school. There is just too much out there.

The great thing about reading fast and reading lots in that your brain will sift through it all and sort it out. So, as the old Saturday morning television commercial said, "The more you read, the more you know."

The interesting thing about having to actually provide proof to support a position is that your opinions and positions change in unexpected and interesting ways. I've seen staunch conservatives soften on some of their core issues and liberals harden on some of theirs. I like to think that in many ways, the community there is much closer to the founding fathers than any other part of society I can name. Not because they are brilliant, though some of them are, but because they are well read and therefore, well educated.

Without standards of proof imposed by the admins or the membership, no discussion is worthwhile because opinions are the results of discussion; not the basis for discussion.

[SPIVALAW]

Political parties like racism and sexism and all other isms are designed only to divide us.

Mr Landtrust as soon as you start saying things I agree with you say something silly like "Lawyers shouldn't run"
Almost every major safety or important change in America's history resulted from lawyers.
Why not eliminated Doctors or plumbers or people who sell trust from political office?

MAKE IT A GREAT DAY!!!
howard

[landtrustwizard]

I said it tongue-in-cheek, Howard.

:icon_buss

[DSutter]

D Sutter,

I am posting on the topic. You are making personally disparaging remarks against forum rules. Lighten up and enjoy watching the beginning of the end for the Bush cabal. Even Richard Perle and James Baker have turned against him. Poor George. He won't be able to fully establish a fascist govt. after all. Came close, though.
When someone posts something like this without any shred of proof, it is proper to question their mental state. If you really believe that and it is based on something other than your blind hatred of Bush then you wouldn't have any problem providing such proof.

But, Tim is right, since proof isn't required here, nobody does it and it devolves into little more than more piffle.

His grandfather, Prescott, tried the same thing. He, JP Morgan, Dupont, and Remington plotted the assassination of FDR in 1934 with the intention of installing a fascist regime here in the US. Only the courageous efforts of Gen. Smedley Butler stopped them. FDR confiscated several of Bush's businesses for "trading with the enemy" and laundering money for Hitler. What a role model for Dubya.
Again, no proof offered and some of your facts are just plain wrong. It was Prescott's father in law who had ownership interest. There was no attempted assasination. The "confiscated assets" were returned after the war. etc. etc.

Did you know about Prescott's work with planned parenthood? No? Hmmm, I wonder why?

As to the alternative for Halliburton from whom Cheney is still collecting millions (can you say "conflict of interest"?), NO WAR!

Care to provide your source for Cheney supposedly collecting millions in relation to Halliburton? By the way, soon after Bush took office the left was critical of Cheney for selling off Halliburton stock near its peak. They "forgot" to mention that it was an automatic sale to financially divest Cheney from Halliburton.

[landtrustwizard]

I had the year wrong. It was 1932. Here is the info on Gen. Smedley Butler (http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/smedley.htm) who was twice awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor and ran for the Senate as a Republican, in his own words. Here is what Gen. Butler says about the business of war and why wars are fought. It is amazing and should be read by everyone: IN HIS OWN WORDS
(http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm)
In Sept. 2004, a major world newspaper, the Guardian, of England, posted an article with complete details of the Prescott Bush/Nazi scandal. To confirm the veracity of their story, reporter Duncan Campbell contacted independent reporter, John Buchanan, to verify the facts. They were the only two journalists ever given complete access to the historical documents from the US National Archives and the National Library of Congress. Prescott Bush was the father of George HW Bush, and the grandfather of Dubya. The father-in-law you refer to was Herbert Walker, both of whom were proven to have been Nazi sympathizers.

Like Grandpa, like Grandson.:SM145:

In this video, John Buchanan, a Republican, reports their findings (http://user1120.websitewizard.com/files/unprotected/John_Buchanan_Reporting.wmv). Here is a link to the documents (http://hnn.us/articles/1810.html) Buchanan has submitted as proof. You wanted Proof -- you got it.

[Randy (SELA)]

Gary,
You can post links and "facts" all day long. So could I. If you despise George Bush and the Republicans, that is your perogative. But remember, those in glass houses should not cast stones.

[landtrustwizard]

I don't hate Bush, I pity him. The Republicans? Most voters who register Republican have no clue as to the true agenda of the Neo-CONS who rule the party with an iron hand. The facts are what they are. Sometimes the truth is not easy to accept.


A PS on Cheney and Halliburton: Despite Cheney's claim during a September, 2003 "Meet the Press" appearance that he had "severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest" in Halliburton, Lautenberg argues that Cheney retains significant financial ties to the company. A successful businessman and investor before his election to the Senate, Lautenberg notes that Cheney, who received a $34 million package when he left Halliburton to become Vice President, continues to collect hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred salary and retains $433,333 in unexercised stock options.

According to an analysis distributed by Lautenberg, if Cheney were to exercise his options, the Vice President could:
* Buy 100,000 shares of Halliburton stock at $54.50 before the end of 2007. That adds up to $5,420,000.
* Buy 33,333 shares of Halliburton stock at $28.13 by the end of 2008. That adds up to $937,657.29.
* Buy 100,000 shares of Halliburton stock at $39.50 by the end of 2009. That adds up to $3,950,000.

[Randy (SELA)]

Yes, Cheney could do a lot with his stock options

"The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools."

http://www.factcheck.org/article261.html

[Randy (SELA)]

The facts are what they are. Sometimes the truth is not easy to accept.

Now that's something we agree on.

Why don't you post this up over at moveon.org and the daily kos

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Cheney%20Gift%20Trust%20Agreement.pdf

Cheers!

[Debbie]

What is daily kos?

[Randy (SELA)]

Deb,
It's a website where liberals go to bash anyone or anything that doesn't think like they do. You can Yahoo it.

[Debbie]

Thanx for letting me know.

If there's anything that I think it's worth bashing (and banning), that would be producing sweet gum trees! That is my biggest pet peeves!

[landtrustwizard]

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2004/03/you_dont_know_d.html


:SM013: :SM119: :rockon:

[Randy (SELA)]

Slacktivist? Is that the best you can do? :xxrotflma

[Randy (SELA)]

http://www.harpers.org/sb-a-little-bit-more-on-obama-1161881683.html

http://www.reconstitution.us/seren/archives/1690-BIG,-HUGE,-MASSIVE-Obama-scandal!!.html

:SM039:

[landtrustwizard]

You wanted proof on Prescott Bush -- you got it. No further comment from you on that subject. Why?

:SM083::SM083::SM083::SM083:

[Randy (SELA)]

If I had asked for any proof on Prescott Bush, maybe I would. How about a comment from you on Dick Cheney's stock options? I'll give you a few minutes to go and find another obscure website.

[DSutter]

The sad thing is that as uninformed and ignorant of facts as he is, he will probably vote tomorrow. That means that we have to get out two well informed voters for every uninformed one.

(Psssssssst, don't tell him but fortunately those new fangled voting machines make it a little easier. ;) )

[Dan Auito]

Play nice gang or this thread goes POOF!:whip:

[landtrustwizard]

Bush is responsible for the deaths of almost 3000 Americans, the maiming of over 20,000 Americans and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians because of his LIES to the American people, the UN, and to the world. Then he staged the toppling of the statue of Saddam.

Given the Bush family Nazi connections, their connection to the binLaden family and their complicity in 9/11, and his "Mission Accomplished" photo-op, this picture is entirely appropriate as it marks the beginning of the end for another tyrant. This one just happens to be our tyrant.

http://www.uwm.edu/People/closs/images/firefighters1024_768.jpg

:praise: God Bless America.

[mike_mn]

It is amazing...you really believe what you write don't you...

Please give me a history lesson about the Kennedy family...I just want to see how it spins on paper...

[Dan Auito]

Game over gang.